{"id":8361,"date":"2020-09-15T11:15:45","date_gmt":"2020-09-15T15:15:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/?p=8361"},"modified":"2020-09-17T09:28:47","modified_gmt":"2020-09-17T13:28:47","slug":"the-tension-between-organic-and-structured-disciple-making","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/blog\/the-tension-between-organic-and-structured-disciple-making\/","title":{"rendered":"The Tension between Organic and Structured Disciple-making"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=&#8221;in_container&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; equal_height=&#8221;yes&#8221; content_placement=&#8221;middle&#8221; scene_position=&#8221;center&#8221; text_color=&#8221;dark&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; top_padding=&#8221;40&#8243; bottom_padding=&#8221;100&#8243; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; shape_divider_position=&#8221;bottom&#8221; shape_type=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/6&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][\/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;2\/3&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_column_text]<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-7346\" src=\"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/Saturate.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"71\" height=\"71\" srcset=\"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/Saturate.png 225w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/Saturate-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/Saturate-100x100.png 100w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/09\/Saturate-140x140.png 140w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 71px) 100vw, 71px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-size: 12px; line-height: 120%; text-transform: uppercase;\">THIS ARTICLE<br \/>\nIS FROM SATURATE<\/p>\n[\/vc_column_text][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;<b>EDITOR&#8217;S NOTE:<\/b><br \/>\nThis is an excerpt from a live Question + Response session in Saturate\u2019s Missional Church Transition Starter. It is still relevant today, as we all wrestle with living out discipleship and community in these unusual times, in the aftermath of the Great Confinement.&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:100%25|text_align:left|color:%23ffffff|line_height:1.4&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:300%20light%20regular%3A300%3Anormal&#8221; css=&#8221;.vc_custom_1600182556713{margin-top: 10% !important;margin-bottom: -10px !important;padding-top: 7% !important;padding-right: 7% !important;padding-bottom: 7% !important;padding-left: 7% !important;background-color: #8599ca !important;}&#8221; link=&#8221;|||&#8221;]<div class=\"divider-wrap\"><div style=\"height: 80px;\" class=\"divider\"><\/div><\/div>[vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;From Sunday to Everyday&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:260%25|text_align:left|color:%23000000|line_height:1.2&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221; css=&#8221;.vc_custom_1600182587651{margin-bottom: -10px !important;}&#8221;][vc_row_inner column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; bottom_padding=&#8221;40&#8243; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; el_id=&#8221;un&#8221;][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;Did your church ever experience tension between people who want to make disciples, but want it to be organic vs. structured?&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:125%25|text_align:left|color:%23000000|line_height:1.5&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221;][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; el_id=&#8221;un&#8221;][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_column_text]Yes, I think there\u2019s the organic and then there\u2019s the institutional; there\u2019s the unstructured versus the structured. What I would like to appeal to us is that we go back to biblical categories in a sense. That\u2019s a way of talking about how you feel and experience an environment, which is just a preference at the end of the day. I prefer to have a very highly structured environment. Does that make me evil? No. That just means I have a preference for order.<\/p>\n<p>I could just as well argue with you that that\u2019s a reflection of the image of God. He clearly creates order out of chaos. Otherwise, how do you read the creation narrative? The real question is around who are we? I believe we are family. Because of the work of God to adopt us into His family in Christ, we actually are family. Rather than organic, I think we should define it around relationship; that is the way I would want to talk about that.[\/vc_column_text][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;<em>Because of the work of God to adopt us into His family in Christ, we actually are family.<\/em>&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:125%25|text_align:left|color:%2338559b|line_height:1.5&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221;][vc_column_text]That\u2019s what a lot of people are talking about when they say \u201corganic\u201d. They want it to be fluid, to be Spirit-led. Really what they\u2019re saying is, \u201cI want it to be familial. I want it to feel like an authentic relationship with one another.\u201d That\u2019s what a family is. Authenticity in relationship.<\/p>\n<p>I also think there\u2019s structure and there\u2019s order, but it\u2019s actually more along the lines of authority. How does God bestow authority in the New Testament upon the church? We can get into an ecclesiology discussion, but bottom line is that there is authority and order in God\u2019s church. Just read I Timothy 3, Titus 2, and I Corinthians 14. God desires, in a sense, an ordering of his people through the lens of authority. All authority is mediated by the Word of God and it is empowered by the Spirit of God. There are means of biblical authority for how the church should function. Rather than saying organic versus institutional, let\u2019s say familial and authority. Those are the two biblical categories to start thinking through. If I\u2019m in that conversation, I\u2019m usually going to push people back to the Bible itself rather than a preference that we have.[\/vc_column_text][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;How have you seen people long for both authentic relationships and clear authority in community? How have you experienced these two categories?&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:125%25|text_align:left|color:%23000000|line_height:1.5&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221;][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner]<div class=\"divider-wrap\"><div style=\"margin-top: 50px; height: 1px; margin-bottom: 50px;\" data-width=\"100%\" data-animate=\"\" data-animation-delay=\"\" data-color=\"default\" class=\"divider-border\"><\/div><\/div>[vc_row_inner column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; top_padding=&#8221;0&#8243; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; el_id=&#8221;trois&#8221;][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/4&#8243; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;]<div class=\"img-with-aniamtion-wrap \" data-max-width=\"100%\" data-border-radius=\"none\"><div class=\"inner\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-shadow=\"none\" data-shadow-direction=\"middle\" class=\"img-with-animation \" data-delay=\"0\" height=\"960\" width=\"960\" data-animation=\"fade-in\" src=\"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom.jpg 960w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-768x768.jpg 768w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-140x140.jpg 140w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-500x500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-350x350.jpg 350w, https:\/\/missionqc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/09\/0076-Todd-Engstrom-800x800.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"auto, 100vw\" alt=\"\" \/><\/div><\/div>[\/vc_column_inner][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;3\/4&#8243; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_column_text]<strong>Dr. Todd Engstrom<\/strong> is the Executive Pastor of Ministries at The Austin Stone Community Church in Austin, Texas. Additionally, he directs the efforts of The Austin Stone in church planting &#8211; training, resourcing and deploying church leaders to glorify God wherever they are. Finally, he regularly speaks, writes and consults with churches on the topics of missional communities and organizational leadership. At home, he is husband to Olivia, father to five kids, and a missionary in his neighborhood.[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;This article was previously published on the Saturate blog.<br \/>\nUsed with permission. \u00a9 SATURATE 2019.&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:p|font_size:80%25|text_align:left|color:%23848484|line_height:1.2&#8243; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221; css=&#8221;.vc_custom_1600182694920{margin-top: 60px !important;margin-bottom: -30px !important;}&#8221; link=&#8221;|||&#8221;][\/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/6&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=&#8221;full_width_content&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; equal_height=&#8221;yes&#8221; content_placement=&#8221;middle&#8221; bg_image=&#8221;7975&#8243; bg_position=&#8221;center center&#8221; bg_repeat=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; parallax_bg=&#8221;true&#8221; parallax_bg_speed=&#8221;medium&#8221; scene_position=&#8221;center&#8221; text_color=&#8221;dark&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; shape_divider_position=&#8221;bottom&#8221; shape_type=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;left-right&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/3&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][\/vc_column][vc_column centered_text=&#8221;true&#8221; column_padding=&#8221;padding-8-percent&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;top-bottom&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/3&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_custom_heading text=&#8221;Questions about Mission Qu\u00e9bec?&#8221; font_container=&#8221;tag:h2|text_align:center|color:%23ffffff&#8221; google_fonts=&#8221;font_family:Lato%3A100%2C100italic%2C300%2C300italic%2Cregular%2Citalic%2C700%2C700italic%2C900%2C900italic|font_style:400%20regular%3A400%3Anormal&#8221; link=&#8221;|||&#8221; css=&#8221;.vc_custom_1600349274920{padding-top: 10% !important;}&#8221;]<div class=\"divider-wrap\"><div style=\"height: 40px;\" class=\"divider\"><\/div><\/div>[nectar_btn size=&#8221;jumbo&#8221; open_new_tab=&#8221;true&#8221; button_style=&#8221;regular&#8221; button_color_2=&#8221;Accent-Color&#8221; icon_family=&#8221;none&#8221; el_class=&#8221;center&#8221; text=&#8221;CONTACT US ON FACEBOOK&#8221; url=&#8221;https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/missionqc&#8221;][\/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; width=&#8221;1\/3&#8243; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][\/vc_column][\/vc_row]\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>En 2011, un groupe de chr\u00e9tiens a d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de donner une banni\u00e8re publique \u00e0 son d\u00e9sir d\u2019aimer son prochain. \u00c0 ce jour, plus d\u2019une douzaine d\u2019\u00c9glises qu\u00e9b\u00e9coises ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 exp\u00e9riment\u00e9 l&#8217;int\u00e9gration de cette approche pour atteindre leur propre micro-champ missionnaire.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":8365,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[46],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-8361","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-equipping"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8361","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/18"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8361"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8361\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8372,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8361\/revisions\/8372"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/8365"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8361"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8361"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/missionqc.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8361"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}